Additional Solicitor General of India, Sr. Adv. Pinky Anand: The road post Harvard

Dr. Pinky Anand is a designated Senior Advocate and incumbent Additional Solicitor General of India. A Doctorate of Law, graduate of the Harvard Law School, an Inlaks scholar and Honorary Professor at Amity Law School, she is the second woman in India holding this high Constitutional Law office. In conversation with Manushi Desai, she shares her journey post graduation from the world’s top law school, Harvard.

On getting into the world’s top university: Harvard

I prepared for it as I prepared for everything - I did not think of it as if it's something too high or that I can't achieve it. It was an ambition to go to Harvard. I was inspired by the movie Paper Chase which is a movie based on Harvard Law School and in that generation again there was a fascination to some degree as it is today to go abroad to do your masters. Definitely again it was a step up if you went to American Universities in that time. In a manner, of course, we just did it as a course application, we applied and we got in.

On getting the prestigious Inlaks Scholarship

I applied for Rhodes actually, I did not get the Rhodes, but Rhodes recommended me to Inlaks. I did not even apply for Inlaks and all I know is that Rhodes recommended me. Of course I filled a form afterwards.

On being a first generation lawyer

I am a first generation lawyer, I don't have any lawyers in my family. Now it's a different matter since my husband is a lawyer, my father in law is a lawyer, but that was very much later down the line. I started my practice before that. I don't have any infrastructure, I did not  have any benevolent hand in that sense. And all said and done that's quite a necessary part.

On partnering with a woman lawyer

On the other hand, the reason I did not have as bad a struggle as I should have is because my friend Geeta Luthra who is a senior advocate now and I started practice together. Hence, we were able to bear most of the rigours of the profession much more easily than if you are individuals. In fact it was very unknown of women partnering with each other in the profession. We did not have many women in the profession and we did not have many women partners either. I think partnering was a phenomenon which was somewhat different and it  helped me to get past all the struggles that came one's way.

On the struggles of being a woman lawyer

The principle struggle I think for the female lawyer aside from the fact that you know you are not part of that old Boy's  club is the fact that your friends are not necessarily working and hence you don't have the contacts for getting work and ultimately it is important. Secondly, there is and of course there has always been and still continues, I think to some extent, the fact that there is a prejudice against engaging women counsels. We were fewer in number and people working on their own right were even fewer in number since maybe most were working as juniors or for other people. So I mean, there were struggles but, the first part goes past in a decade. It goes in a flash to the extent I don't have any heartburn which I remember in that sense.

On the magic sauce to success

I think where when you went beyond a point and prove yourself, you actually were acknowledged. You have to continue to be twice a man. So the demonstration effect and the visibility or your proving your mettle is something which has to be done at the first degree level. Having done that, you need to have people who kind of support you.. My family is a very big support, my in-laws are very supportive and I think that's a very important feature too, because professional life is a tough one. You have a very rough life balance. So how do you balance that future? But, I have come to the conclusion that you can't be the best at everything, so it's high time you just try to do what you can and go with that.



On the first big break

Honestly speaking, the first big break we had was from a business group which decided to support or engage one's services and so that gave me a biggest break because I got a retainer and got exposure to various kinds of cases. Being a Marwadi business group, they say you learn more from them than what you learn at Harvard and definitely with the rigours of the profession, you learn far more on your feet than you learn from any text book. We got a wide exposure to wide variety of cases from that group not only in Delhi, but in various parts of Delhi. We used to go to various even district courts and in fact I think even trial courts.

On the ebb and flow of work and my “Swades” moment

One just got breaks from some waters one never solicited work. It never came like that and being convent educated, you kind of say do the Gita way. If you do righteous work it will all come through. But the real world is slightly different although we actually proceeded on that kind of presumption, working with whatever we got. I started with Ms. Geeta Luthra's father who was a Senior Advocate, Mr. K K luthra and learnt quite a bit with him and then we decided to launch of on our own. The work just came from various places and once you did something that one thing lead to another. It was slow and steady, started from trial courts which was also quite a crunch and I used to work in Boston with a law firm and doing fairly well there. Most people were surprised when I came back. However, I was determined to come back to India and stay with my family and friends. I wanted to be first a nationalist and then anything else. Even though when I was leaving my firm in Boston, I got a little bit queasy should I go back or should I not - it was only a very minor twinge, my conviction of coming back was very certain - so much so that when I went for an interview I told them I did not want to stay for more than a year. Also it was surprising to get into Boston since in those days, India was not as well known as it is today. The firm in Boston gave me a job, but I came back and I went to the trial courts and I went to places like even Rohtak or Tiz Hazari constantly.

Lastly- On paying your penance in trial courts

But between you and me, trial courts are great fun. I think you learn the most there and it is a folly to jump straight to the Supreme Court without having done the set up because you really need to understand what law is about and law is made. Its like cooking, you may have pre-cooked meals available but you have to cook yourself - I think you learn a lot from there and also for young lawyers- you are trusted far more with the trial court cases than you are with Higher Court cases- so it was a relation you build- you go up the ladder. The ladder is a very slow one- like snakes and ladders- you went up and you came down - you just struggle it out- it just kind of happened- panels and other people who supported you and otherwise.

Ram Jethmalani Interview

RAM JETHMALANI INTERVIEW

Mr. Ram Jethmalani is one of India’s top lawyers known to be an able cross examiner, an outstanding advocate and a crusader for social justice. His biography was recently published and launched by the Hon ‘ble Chief Justice of India. He shot to fame after appearing in the K. M. Nanavati Case and was in the news for standing up against corruption in the Black Money Case. India’s flamboyant legal eagle takes time out to share his insights in a one to one interview at his Akbar Road residence.

You have been practicing since long and have constantly been fighting for your clients often at the cost of the judge’s rebuking as seen in various top cases. What does it take to be a good lawyer?

One should learn to distinguish the profession from a business. In a profession, money making is not the important object – although people sometimes make more money than they should, but that’s not the point. The point is that one has to ALWAYS have the notion that the legal profession is a method of service to the public.

How was it when you started? What do you think of the current legal system and the dearth of good lawyers?

Nobody wants your service free. If you offer free service, people will think that the man is trying to build business for themselves. And today our whole legal aid system as you call it, organized by the bar, the court or the government is a sham. They don’t give the best lawyers to a poor litigant. They are in fact, making experiments between the law and the poor people. When I was the Chairman of the Bar Council of India, I had drafted a Professional Rules of Conduct added to the existing Rules of Conduct – that it is the professional duty of every lawyer within the economic capacity to render free legal aid to those who stand in need of it and this is the professional obligation more of seniors whose assistance is required by the poor people who sometimes get in the middle of some unfair litigation where only a good lawyer can be of help.

Also, only those persons should take the law who do not regard the practice of law as a business.

What is the secret behind making money in the profession?

I have finished more than 75 years of my practice and I make a good bit of money, certainly not like a lot of top lawyers, some of whom are too business minded. I do make money but I make it from 10% of my clients while 90 % work is free work, no fees. That’s the way I serve the people.

How to be a successful advocate? You have time and again represented the Government in big cases, something law students wish to emulate you for. What is the secret?

Law is a profession, the practice of which requires tremendous industry. You must be capable when you are young to put in about 15-16 hours of work. If you are not capable of that kind of industry, then you should take to some other kind of profession or business.

What should a law student learn to start of well? Nowadays, students dedicate their time to moots, research, internships and debating. Is it the right path?

A lawyer who only knows law is a missile, what you need to be is that you should be an architect. Justice does not ultimately depend on law, it depends on facts. And the lawyer must know not only law but a smattering of everything. History, philosophy, science, logic, languages, a lawyer must realize that ultimately advocacy consists in persuading a judge with your oral argument. The more command over language you have, the more persuasive you can be and that puts you ahead of your rivals.

What is the duty of a law student? What makes an honest lawyer? You have time and again preached the importance of fidelity and morality in law. What does a law student do to be honest and righteous?

When you appear for a client, your duty is not only to the lawyer but also to the appellant. Morality consists not in obeying the law, but in carrying out that which is not enforceable by the law. In other words, for example if a lawyer promises the other lawyer that the next day I will consent to an adjournment, this promise is not capable of enforcement, but it is his duty to keep that promise – as a lawyer, as a gentleman. Observance of that which is unenforceable is the highest form of morality.

What should law students do to be the role models in society? What is an important trait to develop as a law student? You have extensively mentored law students, written weekly for the Sunday Guardian and been Professor Emeritus at Symbiosis University, Pune. Yet, you find time to pursue your passion of law. How should we start to get there? What is the secret?

In my lectures to law students and sometimes even practicing lawyers, I told them that the spiritual ancestor of the legal profession is a character in the Biblical stories, the story of Danielle and Suzzana. That’s a story located in Ancient Babylon. They say that Babylon was ruled by a council of elders like in the modern panchayat – the oldest persons were the rulers of administratio. But, there lived in ancient Babylon, a woman of almost breathtaking beauty. So, each of the old men passed a lecherous glance at her and tried to seduce her but the virtue of this woman was stronger than the solicitations of these old men. They brought a false charge against her and naturally the accusers, the complainants and the judges were all rolled into one; therefore these four old men succeeded. So no wonder the poor woman was found guilty, charged with adultery of a young man unknown. And in those days the practice used to be that the person who was sentenced to death as she was, was to be stoned to death. So, they say that a crowd had collected to see the blood of the woman flow but before the first stone was tossed there arose from the audience a young man called Danielle. Danielle said, “I don’t believe this woman is guilty” and he kicked up a row. Though the crowd was not impressed by his wisdom, they were certainly impressed by his bravado1 They said young man what do you want? He said I want to ask questions to these old men. They said, alright, ask. He was not a trained lawyer but he made some rudimentary cross examinations that please tell me where you find this adultery being committed. So each of the four men gave such highly conflicting replies. Somebody says it was in a palace, somebody says it was in a sea beach, somebody says it was moonlight, somebody says it was sunlight like that. They say that the crowd which was gathered for the blood of the woman flow was now howling for the blood of the old men. Then the poor woman was let out.

Danielle was the first lawyer of history.

So, the essence that you draw from this: he worked without a fee, he fought against the establishment, against the power – the ruling power, he fought for justice, and he did not mind what the people will think of him

What is the most important skill in criminal litigation a law student should learn? What is required to be a great lawyer like you?

Lawyers must insist on becoming good cross examiners. The art of cross examination has practically died out in the legal profession.

The article was oringinally published here

Supreme Court Bar Association Activities - Internship Experience

Internship with M N Krishnamani

This interview was first published in a student blog.

Name of Organisation, Location, Team Strength

M. N. Krishnamani, Supreme Court Bar Association President, 7

Application Process

Email through his P.A. or call and inquire.

Duration of internship and timings

Post college 3-8, Saturday , Sunday on.
But if you go to court then the work hours tend to be 11-8 on miscellaneous days.

First impression, first day formalities, infrastructure

The Cabin is an Amazing 5 star Hotel Room filed with accolades.
I talked with the associates who permitted a running internship, they taught me some basics of
briefing which I imbibed in other future work.
Sir is extremely kind and like a grandparent.

There are paintings by his son, a famous painter all through the office.

The book collection is unique- Sir has English and American publications,
a section on his own books and on mythology apart from Law books.

Main tasks

I got to attend conferences, hearings, brief juniors and research contentions.

Work environment and people

Three associates- very friendly and helped me with a few college assignments too!
Wish I always be that lucky!

Work environment was respectful, pious, learning and people are extremely dedicated to work!
MN Krishnamani Sir’s place is extremely nice and the people involving and cooperative.

Best things

Watching Sir counseling clients!
Also, a Supreme Court Senior Lawyer is generally involved in social change.
I got to attend one such event chaired by Sir and attended by Mr. Soli Sorabjee and Mr. Mukul Rohtagi

There was good food to follow and staff ensured we ate well and reached safely.

Bad things

I got scolded badly by a junior once!

Stipend

Rs. 2500.

Biggest Lessons

Keep Calm and patience, invest in your hobbies, don’t scold, be humble
 and the best traits of Krishnamani Sir- Philantrophy and Leadership-
he is President, four times, SCBA and encourages spiritual stuff!

Any Other Thing

The market is so inviting , I feel the interns and associates-
who became a big bunch of amazing friends- hung out a lot more during lunch hours and
it became a habit to eat it Big Chill or Dominos sometimes two-three times a week!

The Wikipedia entry is here

Internship with Adv. Harish Salve

My internship experience at Harish Salve's Chambers

This article was originally written for a student's blog and hence the format is to suit 
the readers of that site. It describes my internship experience with one of India's top lawyers 
and an honest review of working there.

Name of the organization. City

Harish Salve, Senior Counsel, Supreme Court and former Solicitor General of India- best known
for turning the judgment in the Vodafone case regarding double taxation and learning under
Mr. Palkhiwala, the tax law moghul.

Duration of the internship :

4 weeks (seems very little)

How big was the office? Team strength?

7 associates and around 10 administration staff.

There are two apartments on the sixth floor of the posh Bhagwan Das road. One houses the
chamber, a small waiting room, the associate’s room while the other has a huge waiting room,
Manager’s room and kitchen.

The Harish Salve office also has a small room for interns to wait in.

There is no dearth of space in the conference room where the clients and law firms are always
on their toes , briefing sir – the first day I saw more than 20 people come for a conference in one go.

Application procedure. Internship contact details :

You can call and enquire.

Duration in weeks. No. of days/week. Timings :

4 weeks, 6 days a week 8.30am to 8pm., ( Saturday half day) I generally went for morning
conferences which started at 8.30am and lasted upto 10.30am and then court Except on Monday,
Friday and Saturday since there’s no court on Miscellaneous days.

In the evenings Harish Sir takes an hour’s break and goes for swimming so we are relatively
free till 6 pm. Then there are back to back conferences till 8pm.However, girls staying far away
have the option of leaving early.

On Sundays it’s off and Friday evening too. Saturday conferences start in the evening.

Accommodation: how, where, how was it?

I stayed at DU Campus Housing …there are a lot of hostels and rooms for rent available around
North Delhi. There is also a direct metro line near the office on the blue line.

If you get the chance you should try finding a place in the Hostels located on Bhagwan Das road
itself. Maybe your State bhavan such as Gujarat Bhawa for me since I come from Gujarat can accommodate you for the month. The HR who coordinates the internships can be contacted for it.

First impression. First day, formalities etc.

I arrived extremely early and had to wait for the other people to arrive.
The staff was courteous and offered tea while I was waiting. By 10 am the rooms began to fill
with associates and clients. We got an email with a list of conferences scheduled and we started
to attend it.

One thing I am extremely tempted to mention is that the first client to walk in was a high profile
ex MLA for a case. I was awed and even more when I saw that all cases were extremely
interesting and I had a great first day ahead in store for me.

But I was more taken aback by seeing Boss at his desk for more than 10 conferences straight
and being as energetic and active for the last conference as for the first. He constantly had to
talk -quite a feat. Maybe our lecturers complaining about getting tired after two three lectures
should take a leaf out of his book!

Main tasks (in detail)

Taking notes in of conferences and courts. Assisting associates in research and preparing
list of dates.

The associates at the chambers of Harish Salve provide extremely systematic assignments and
instructions are to the point.

One of my co interns got to counsel a client in a criminal matter on his own without any associate
being present, I think that is the ultimate!

Work environment, people:

You can never ask for a better team… The associates are always there, constantly working and
guiding us to attend courts and conferences.

The assistants send us an email daily stating which conference to attend, the cook prepared food
and coffee, espresso etc whenever we were hungry, there were instructions to contact Ma’am in
case of any issues.

Everything was as smooth as possible! There was lunch in huge afternoons for the entire office
and snacks such as soya chips and diet coke for us too in the evenings.

I consider myself extremely lucky to have had such an amazing experience. 

Best things?

Seeing high profile clients come to seek sir’s counsel.. You get to learn why someone has such a
high reputation… Is it the meticulous studying, the uninterrupted focus (never seen sir constantly
checking his phone), the curiosity to constantly learn new acts and amendments, the dedication to
provide the best solution , having a great support system or the persuasive advocacy style.

It is completely out of the world and guarantees you learn a great deal!

After watching Boss on you tube and twitter, I understand the hype that surrounds such a great
lawyer and why every business house and politician(we witnessed a lot of them being advised
by Boss) comes to only Harish Salve!

But there was a better unheard of version too- I jotted down a few of my favorites.

Once, I saw a bag of dog biscuits near the security cabin. I came to know that besides the fact that
Sir is a dog lover and has five dogs, the dog biscuits were for the street dogs. Isn’t that sweet?

Another incident is his ever forgiving nature- he readily forgives late clients and mistakes by his
staff. Mr. Harish Salve is also a pro at time management-he never wastes time with small talk or
traveling to and from his rest room is within the office itself and Supreme Court is literally round
the corner.

Bad things?

Sir was always having what seems to be magical potions that helped conduct non stop conferences
for hours together. For us mere mortals having no powers, no time to breath!

Besides, the Harish Salve internship seems extremely short since Sir had to travel quite often!
But on the plus side more time to attend college in between and manage attendance for students
studying in Delhi especially since the Bar Council’s new rules about attendance and internship.

Stipend/ month

No stipend

Anything else you’d like to tell T

he staff was extremely courteous and always on their toes… Another is the green concept with
which all of the matters are conducted-he uses his ipad and Mac rather than printouts. Also
Sir is a big Apple promoter – work is always on a Mac!

Biggest lessons

Always be on the clients side… Never stop sympathizing with the client, think from his
point of view, keep excellent relations… Sir has great relations with all firms … Something
which counts a lot..

Also the kind of exposure that we gained as law students with Mr. Harish Salve is something
which cannot be described in a page!

Lawctopus Original Article